Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

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Vardaen
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Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Vardaen » Wed May 05, 2010 12:03 am

This sticky thread is for all players to talk about the Pathfinder RPG rules and to hash out what we think about certain things.
I'm kicking this off with Grapple, Aid Another and Attacks of Opporunity (AoO).

Currently in Fallen Empires we have a situation were Vren (unarmed) wants to help Torrak grapple an animated witch's cauldron.

Vren lacks Imp Unarmed Attack, she also lacks Imp Grapple.

Torrak has Imp Unarmed Attack, and he also has Imp Grapple.

Vren is acting first, and wants to Aid Another to give Torrak a +2 on his Grapple vs the Cauldron.
Multiple Creatures: Multiple creatures can attempt to grapple one target. The creature that first initiates the grapple is the only one that makes a check, with a +2 bonus for each creature that assists in the grapple (using the Aid Another action). Multiple creatures can also assist another creature in breaking free from a grapple, with each creature that assists (using the Aid Another action) granting a +2 bonus on the grappled creature's combat maneuver check.
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
The way I'm reading this is, Vren is making an Unarmed Attack to Aid Another vs AC10. That provokes an AoO. If she had Imp Unarmed then no AoO, even if she had Imp Grapple I might see it as legit to have no AoO. But as it stands I'm thinking Vren draws an AoO from the Cauldron because this is an attack and she's unarmed.

Help.
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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Bitom » Wed May 05, 2010 12:21 am

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering-- ... C-Grappled

"Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity."

Problem Solved?

I don't see how you can really aid another to grab someone. Why won't Vren just move to provide a flanking bonus? it's also a +2 and then you don't have to play with this.

Otherwise, I'd make him delay until after Torrak and he can aide on the "Maintain grapple" rolls.

I really wonder if you can "Aid another" on a combat roll at all. I've seen it done, but is has always seemed strange to me. what do you do, stand there and make faces at the enemy?

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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Vardaen » Wed May 05, 2010 12:28 am

The Cauldron isn't grappled yet... its just standing there. Vren (she) acts first, then Torrak.

She is flanking with Torrak already actually. However flanking doesn't say it adds a bonus to the CMB, only to attack, but it doesn't state it doesn't! If that makes sense.
Flanking
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers' centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking.

Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus.

Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can't flank an opponent.
The situation is very reasonable for Vren to aid, she's pushing to flip the pot, and torrak is pulling to try and grapple and pinn it next round to the floor (by sitting on it!?). I have no issue with aiding another on attack, you distract the foe by causing it to expose itself to you instead of the other preson, effectively reducing its AC, not nessicarilly increasing your allies attack. Works out the same. THAT is not the question here.
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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Vardaen » Wed May 05, 2010 12:31 am

Okay nevermind about the stupidity on my part about flanking and CMB
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
The question remains, AoO vs Vren's Aid Another on the Grapple?
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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by paradoxa » Wed May 05, 2010 12:37 am

Hm... from the way I read the rules, I'd say yes.

But then... technically, Vren could have drawn her sword during the move action. And then there'd be no AoO? That seems kind of odd.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Bitom » Wed May 05, 2010 12:47 am

ah, pathfinder has an actual roll for aiding:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---final wrote: In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
Since you ARE making an attack roll, I would say that you provoke as normal.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Trogdor » Wed May 05, 2010 1:01 am

Yes.

In the table on page 183 of the rulebook (I'm not going to try and reproduce a table here), it says that Aid Another may provoke an attack of opportunity. In footnote 2 is states:
If you aid someone performing an action that would normally provoke an attack of opportunity, then the act of aiding another provokes an attack of opportunity as well.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Vardaen » Wed May 05, 2010 3:51 am

See I knew Trogdor could locate the rule. Thanks I tend to rely on the srd too much at work and rarely open the book for tables and such.
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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Trogdor » Wed May 05, 2010 5:51 pm

And I got to cite a footnote. What a bonus!

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Re: Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions

Post by Vardaen » Wed May 05, 2010 6:00 pm

Since you can't grapple with a weapon, the attack would have to be unarmed. I think Vren suffers the AoO from the pot, as per all the rules we've discovered. If Vren wants to do something else go ahead Paradoxa since we are discovering this stuff for the first time here.

If not, that's cool too.
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