RANDOM HISTORY CHATTER.

[Taliesin]

Four separate points to consider....

1) I want to go on record as an opponent of developing more 'nonhuman' races. No offense, but if we go with this Ashkari idea I think they're quite unusual enough. The further we get from the plausible, the more work we need to do to make it seem plausible. Josh, you're full of great ideas-- I'd love to see you focus that creativity on fleshing out the ones you've already laid a foundation for.

2) In defense of Dinny's ideas for an ongoing reason vs. religion (or the otherwise unexplainable) dialogue in the more learned strata of society-- what's wrong with this? And why wouldn't a group of them come up with some cockamamie theory about the Ashkari... that just happened to hit near the bullseye? The history of the Renaissance, for example, is rife with examples of scientific theories that made perfect, logical sense at the time.

Some of these theories were in fact true, and became the foundation for the modern study of chemistry and physics. Others were wildly off-base, yes, but they had plenty of adherents at the time. The Society of Philosophers isn't always right, and just as importantly, sometimes they might be right-- but for the wrong reasons. More germane to this particular topic, the city of Troy was thought to be a fable... until a German dug it up in the 1800s. Sound like Ashkar, anyone? All told, I like Dinny's idea and would like to see her develop it further.

3) King Barin died of old age. I'd like to posit that perhaps Ashkarian longevity was tied primarily to certain disciplines practiced by members of Ashkari society. Full-blooded Ashkari, through selective breeding, became more genetically receptive to these practices than normal folk. Thus, under this theory, if you're of Ashkari descent and don't know it, you'll be healthier and live longer than 'normal' people, but not nearly as long as a full-blooded Ashkar who says his prayers and takes his vitamins.

4) The idea behind the Fair Folk having built the Grey Tower is simple: they were a relatively small number of folk who fled the corruption of Ashkar proper, and set about building their own city in the only way they knew how. (Tall, elegant towers of course!) Some sort of tragedy scared the living hell out of them-- perhaps pursuit from enemies back home-- and they abandoned the idea early, leaving behind the unfinished Grey Tower and nothing else. Later on, those Ashkari who came to what would be Editia discovered it and set up residence.

Them's my thoughts.

[Palamon]

Rich, some excellent thoughts. I'll reply to them in order.

1. The Ashkari. You sure they make "sense" in terms of 'Fair folk' and 'Faerie'? If so, then let's go with it. I concur regarding the nonhumans, although I am considering mythological beasts.

2. Dinny's Faith vs Reason. I am woefully undereducated in this area, but I trust her to do an excellent job with it when she has time.

3. Regarding longevity. This is a tricky one for me. Perhaps certain "gifts" of the Ashkari would be more prominent in some people than in others, and perhaps it even has something to do with the mother's decisions. Or we could have our Evil Emperor actually probe into the secrets of the Ashkari, and discover some of their magic. He could therefore still be a half-breed, unknowingly, and therefore be more adept at the magical side of stuff. And we wouldn't have to have the automatic "rule" that I created earlier. I think this makes the most sense.

4. I like it. Let's go with it.

All right. I wanted to clear up a bunch of inconsistencies before I went ahead and started posting again. I'm going to start working on Rylos next, I think, starting them off as pre-Hellenic Greeks as Thucydides describes them in the beginning of Pel. War. This will be a very interesting part of the world, I think. I want to develop more of the "general" history and culture first, before getting into the nitty-gritty of each area.

[Taliesin]

It looks like we're starting to reach some consensus here, which is great. Points #2 and #4 appear to be agreed-upon, so I'll answer 1 and 3 my perspective and hopefully that'll put us on the same page.

#1 -- The Ashkari and mythical stuff.

I do think this works. Beneath all of the detail (on which Josh and Andy did a great job), it's 100% consistent with my own original suggestion of a mortal, human race that through learning and mastery of metaphysical ability managed to 'perfect' themselves. You guys did a great job with this, so good that not only have you provided us with a perfect basis for "Faerie", but the Ashkari are also a great foundation for evil "metahumans" (i.e., vampires, near-immortal sorcerors, etc). I'm fully on board with it.

#3 -- On longevity.

Josh's explanation above hits pretty near what I would consider an ideal mark. I'm fine with this as our 'working draft' for why certain folk of Ashkari or Faerie blood live for centuries (Itracus), and others (King Barin) don't.

Let's keep the threads coming, people!

And where the heck is Arny, anyway?

[Palamon]

I have been giving this a considerable amount of thought, and I have come up with a few ideas.

First, I would like to posit that the average Ashkari lived for 250 years. This is enough to separate them from the average man, but only so much as the Dunedain were "superior".

Second, that there were those of Ashkari descent who lived longer through various means. For those of you who have not read it, check out the newest post on Ramacles the Defier. Ramacles the Defier (of death) lived longer through a couple of ways, but "vampirism" is not a bad idea for one of the ways. Perhaps for some of his priests. As I said in that post, he also bathed in the River of the Dead, and drank from it (taking the Achilles thing a bit further). But also, the 'Fair Folk' may have found a more "pure" way to live longer, something to do with I dunno, the trees or somesuch. I'll let Rich work on that.

Thus, we have various different offshoots of the common Ashkari heritage, with some living longer, others shorter. Some just live a little longer than the average person, by like 20 or 30 years. I like this because it does a few things: it gives a good rationale for the variety in lifespans that is completely misunderstood by the average person; it allows us leeway in determining the effects of Ashkari blood; it allows us to have Ashkari families exist within a "common" society such as Durnalia - and even some cities that tend to have longer-lived people than those around them - like for example the Editians may live an extra 20 years versus someone from Estria who only lives 65-75 years; it makes the history of Ashkar a little more plausible within the scope of the world; and it allows for such things as long-lived (perhaps seemingly immortal) sorcerors and vampires and other such uberhumans.

That's all I have for now. I had originally thought that the Ashkari should live over a thousand years on average, but I think that's a little silly. Now, Rich, if you want Fair Folk to live that long, feel free. Come up with a good reason for it, and it's all good. And, it makes it entirely possible for King Barin to be a normal human just like the rest of us. Well, the rest of you anyway.