Chatter - Party Tactics

[Vardaen]

This thread is to chat about party tactics. This is a good place to talk about skill levels, feats, who should do what, who's the better flanker, what your ACs are and that sort of thing to help sort out combat and make you fight as a team. Conversations from here should be translated into the IC game, perhaps around camp one night or in the tavern, etc...

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I'm going to kick things off with a quick recap of your classes:

Celevan - Summoner
Suli - Celevan's Eidolon Wolf
Vren - Rogue
Torrak - Monk
Torias - Cleric (Domains: Runes, Earth)
Dreams - Paladin
Syrronas - Sorcerer (Infernal Bloodline)

NPC - Elsbeth - Paladin

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Also if you really want to work as a team, check out the Team Work Feats in the Advanced Player's Guide Playtest (Final Version) on page 47. These are different from the wat 35. Teamwork Benefits work. This this case you both have to have the feat, but they offer some interesting options. You can find the whole PDF up in the "Falcon Hollow's Public Library" ;) or off of Paizo's website, its free. Or here they are listed out...

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Teamwork Feats
Teamwork feats grant large bonuses, but they only function under specific circumstances. In most cases, these feats require an ally who also possesses the feat to be positioned carefully on the battlefield. Teamwork feats provide no bonus if the listed conditions are not met. Note that allies who are paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise unable to act do not count for the purposes of these feats.

Allied Spellcaster (Teamwork)
With the aid of an ally, you are skilled at piercing the protections of other creatures with your spells.
Prerequisites: Caster level 1st.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you receive a +2 bonus on level checks made to overcome spell resistance.
If your ally has the same spell prepared (or known with a slot available if they are spontaneous spellcasters), this bonus increases to +4 and you receive a +1 bonus to the caster level for all leveldependent variables, such as duration, range, and effect.

Coordinated Defense (Combat, Teamwork)
You are adept at working with allies to avoid being tripped, grappled, and subjected to other maneuvers.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you receive a +2 competence bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense. This bonus increases to +4 if the creature attempting the maneuver is larger than both you and your ally.

Coordinated Maneuvers (Combat, Teamwork)
You are skilled at working with your allies to perform dangerous combat maneuvers.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you receive a +2 competence bonus on all combat maneuver checks. This bonus increases to +4 when attempting to break free from a grapple.

Duck and Cover (Teamwork)
Your allies assist you in avoiding certain attacks.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, and both of you are required to make a Reflex saving throw against a spell or effect, you may take the result of your die roll or that of your ally (your modifiers still apply to the roll, regardless of which result you take). If you take your ally's result, you are knocked prone (or staggered on your next turn, if you are already prone or cannot be knocked prone). In addition, you receive a +2 cover bonus to your AC against ranged attacks as long as your ally is wielding a shield.

Lookout (Combat, Teamwork)
Your allies help you avoid being surprised.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you may act in the surprise round as long as your ally would normally be able to act in the surprise round. If you would normally be denied the ability to act in the surprise round, your initiative is equal to your initiative roll or the
roll of your ally '€" 1, whichever is lower. If both you and your ally would be able to act in the surprise round without the aid of this feat, you may take both a standard and a move action (or a full-round action) during the
surprise round.

Outflank (Combat, Teamwork)
You look for every edge when f lanking an enemy.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Whenever you and an ally who also has this feat are flanking the same creature, your flanking bonus on attack rolls increases to +4. In addition, whenever you score a critical hit against the f lanked creature, it provokes an attack of opportunity from your ally.

Paired Opportunists (Combat, Teamwork)
You know how to make an enemy pay for lax defenses.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you receive a +4 circumstance bonus on attacks of opportunity against creatures that you both threaten. Enemies that provoke attacks of opportunity from your ally also provoke attacks of opportunity from you so long as you threaten them (even if the situation or an ability would normally deny you the attack of opportunity). This does not allow you to take more than one attack of opportunity against a creature for a given action.

Precise Strike (Combat, Teamwork)
You are skilled at striking where it counts, as long as an ally distracts your foe.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Whenever you and an ally who also has this feat are flanking the same the creature, you deal an additional 1d6 points of precision damage with each successful melee attack. This bonus damage stacks with other sources of precision damage, such as sneak attack. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.

Shield Wall (Combat, Teamwork)
You are skilled at working together with those around you for protection.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: Whenever you are wielding a shield and are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, the AC bonus from your shield increases, depending on the shield wielded by your ally. If your ally is wielding a buckler or a light shield, your shield bonus increases by +1. If your ally is wielding a heavy shield or a tower shield, your shield bonus increases by +2. You keep these bonuses even if your ally loses his shield bonus due to making a shield bash attack. If an adjacent ally with this feat uses a tower shield to grant total cover, you also benefit if an attack targeting you passes through the edge of the shield (see page 153 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook).

Shielded Caster (Teamwork)
Your allies are skilled at covering for you while you cast complicated spells.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you receive a +4 bonus on concentration checks. If your ally is wielding a buckler or a light shield, this bonus increases by +1. If you ally is wielding a heavy shield or a tower shield, this bonus increases by +2. Finally, if an enemy that is threatening you and your ally has the Disruptive feat, or another ability that increases the DC of concentration checks, the amount of the increase is halved.

Swap Places (Combat, Tactical)
You are skilled at changing places with your ally during a chaotic melee.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you can move into your ally's square as part of a normal movement (including a 5-foot step). At the same time, your ally moves into your previous space. Both you and your ally must be willing and able to move to take advantage of this feat. Your ally must be the same size as you to utilize this feat. Your ally does not provoke an attack of opportunity from this movement, but you provoke as normal. This movement does not count against your ally's movement on his next turn.

[paradoxa]

Like stated elsewhere, those teamwork feats are nice.
For Vren, the flanking feats (Outflank, Precise Strike) would be really handy, since I wanted to do a lot of flanking anyway.
And maybe Lookout, if I keep botching those perception roles

Alright.. questions? Things we really should talk about? I'm not sure where to start with this.

[Muskrat]

Well, I'm thinking that, if Vren is playing scout, it might make sense to have Dreams immediately after her. She probably is best equipped to be a front line melee fighter, in terms of hit points (12) and to hit bonus (+5 with both ranged weapons and finesse weapons). For some reason, I keep finding myself in a better position to shoot arrows than engage in melee combat and by the time I get into a position to draw my rapier, the combat's over. Maybe I should just run into combat instead of firing my bow, but I figure it's better to take the round to make an attack and move then to move faster and give up an attack. Or maybe what I'm doing makes perfect sense and there's nothing wrong with my character not being in melee combat.

I imagine the next best melee fighter after me is Torrak, the dwarven monk. We could put him immediately after me--or at the back of the party in case we get ambushed from behind.

Also, I was wondering if Torias would be willing to put a point in the Heal skill when he levels. There shouldn't be only one person in the party with the skill, especially if she's a front line fighter.

[Eanwulf]

Just to confuse the hell out of Vard, I'd say Torrak and Torias gets the Swap Places Feat for free!

[paradoxa]

Heh, nice idea, I second that

I was planning do mostly do melee as well, because sneak attacks don't work that well with ranged weapons. But rogues are fairly squishy in PF, so I should probably try to get Spring Attack asap.

[Trogdor]

Celevan's spot in combat will be in the rear. He has light armor, simple weapons, and a cleric's BAB, so he's not going to be a fighting machine. However, he will have Suli for most fights, and the first thing he'll do in any fight is Summon Monster. So we'll have a creature appropriate to the fight to help us out.

But once Suli and the summoned creature are in the fight, most of the actions Celevan takes will be fairly minor. Mostly I expect he'll fire missile weapons as appropriate.

[Wayloss]

Syrronas has two offensive options, Magic missile and color spray, one for long range and one for close range. I will probably be going the crowd control route later as the infernal bloodline gives me some nice options down that path. SO unless I need to get close to stun with color spray (15foot cone ) I'm a magic missle/range-aholic.

[Vardaen]

Just to confuse the hell out of Vard, I'd say Torrak and Torias gets the Swap Places Feat for free!

Oooo hell no! I can barely keep then straight as it is! But it is a nice idea. I'll think about it.

[Vardaen]

I'll be sure to put Dreams up close/in the front from here on out Muskrat.

[Vardaen]

Just to have a place to chat about marching order. The way I see it.

Torrak - Has trapfinding, darkvision, dwarf stonesense, and good hand to hand combat!

Dreams - The fighter, with minor healing if Torrak is screwed

Torias - Melee fighter, spell caster, short speed so being up front means chance to join a fighter sooner, but is still behind enoughto cast spells.

Syrronas or Celevan - Spell casters, Syrronas will be in range for shorter spells, Celevan for summoning monsters.

Suli - Rearguard, can close the gap hopfully quickly, covers the back against ambush, and is close to cover Celevan and Syrronas in case of trouble.