Chatter: Avari
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Chatter: Avari
This thread will be about the elves of the East, known as the Avari. We will need to flesh out culture, and traits and various thematic issues first about them before worrying about mechanics.
Avari
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Avari
The Avari (Q: "unwilling"; or "the Refusers") were a branch of Elves that refused to make the Great Journey.
History
When Oromëfound the Elves that awakened in Cuiviénen, he summoned them to come with him to Valinor. All the Minyar and most of the Tatyar were persuaded, along with some of the Nelyar, and followed Oromë into the west on the Great Journey.
The rest, who dwelt furthest from the waters of Cuiviénen, and wandered in the hills, had not seen Oromë at his first coming, and knew only vague scary rumors of the Valar; lies of Melkor concerning Oromë and Nahar perhaps had a role. So they remained suspicious, or simply refused to depart from their own lands, and spread gradually throughout the wide lands of Middle-earth. Their population was composed of half of the Tatyar and one third of the Nelyar, who maybe were called Lindai. According to a tradition their leaders were Morwë of the Tatyar and Nurwë of the Nelyar. They were after known by the name "the Unwilling", because they refused the summons.
Initially the Avari stayed in Cuiviénen but many of them started to wander westwards.
The Avari who finally went westwards, were mingled with the Nandor of the Vales of Anduin, Eriador and some reached Beleriand, mingling with the Laiquendi. But very few settled in Doriath. The Avari who came from the Tatyar were unfriendly and jealous to the Noldor, their exalted kin, and accused them for arrogance.
The Edain who traveled to the West met the Avari first of all the Elves, and were taught from them music and language, which influenced theirs. They probably taught them many of the basic crafts of civilization, though the craft of the Eldar surpassed that of the Avari even more than that of the Avari surpassed primitive Men.
According to the legends Orcs may be descended by Avarin elves captured and corrupted by Melkor.
Some Avari after the end of the First Age started to mingle with the Silvan Elves.
It is told that no Avari Elves were to be found west of the Misty Mountains during the late Third Age.
Tribes
Six tribes of Avari are mentioned in the Third Age, and their names are all cognates of the Primitive Quendian word Kwendî (the Speakers): Kindi, Cuind, Hwenti, Windan, Kinn-lai, Penni.
Languages
Main article: Avarin
The Avari had many tribes and greatly varied languages, widely sundered from one another. The names above are the only certain Avarin words ever mentioned by the Loremasters.
It is also possible that the name Eöl is an Avarin one.
It is speculated also that Dorwinion was an Avarin land.
Names
The Avari were called Abari in Telerin; they were also called Moripendi (an equivalent of Quenya Moriquendi which referred to the Sindar as well).
In Sindarin they were called Evair, Morben or Mornedhel.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
- Vardaen
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Re: Chatter: Avari
So what we have are six tribes of Avari, the Moriquendi, the Dark Elves, the Unwilling, the Umanyar! Tolkien likes lots of names for the same people.
Their population was composed of half of the Tatyar and one third of the Nelyar, who maybe were called Lindai. According to a tradition their leaders were Morwë of the Tatyar and Nurwë of the Nelyar. They were after known by the name "the Unwilling", because they refused the summons.
The Tatyar were the second group of elves to awake, and the Nelyar were the third group to awake. So there could still be some difference and distinctness between these groups that remain in the six tribes.
Six tribes of Avari are mentioned in the Third Age, and their names are all cognates of the Primitive Quendian word Kwendî (the Speakers): Kindi, Cuind, Hwenti, Windan, Kinn-lai, Penni.
That gives us 6 groups of Avari elves to work with. We can pick locations and the like and start to sort them out. One way to do that is to look at the language, which was Tolkien's big focus most of the time anyhow.
Avarin Langauge Structure
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Avarin
There were at least six different languages, or dialects, in the Avarin group. The various dialects did not have a common development, although all descended from Primitive Quendian.
Three larger divisions of Avarin are recorded: West Avarin, North Avarin and East Avarin. The West Avarin group was nearest to the Eldarin languages of the west; North Avarin was very peculiar, with no initial consonant groups. Not much is known of East Avarin.
Other versions
The Avarin were called Lemberin tongues which originally intended to have a resemblance in sound to Goidelic, Baltic, and Finnic languages.
So just because we have to start some place.
What if West Avarin contained the Kindi, Cuindi and Hwenti. Centered in and around the Sea of Rhûn, Dorwinion, the Wild Wood and the lands around Cuivienen.
The north Avarin might contain the Windan only. Having them north along the Orocarni mountains where the rivers empty out of them and the cold lands there. Perhaps close to one of the dwarf homes in that region.
That would put the East Avarin to contain the Kinn-lai and the Penni. The Kinn-lai might be those in the far east, over the Orocarni mountains and really sort of out of our area of focus for now.
The Penni might have migrated southwards, closer to Khand and the like all along the southern coasts of the sea.
Their population was composed of half of the Tatyar and one third of the Nelyar, who maybe were called Lindai. According to a tradition their leaders were Morwë of the Tatyar and Nurwë of the Nelyar. They were after known by the name "the Unwilling", because they refused the summons.
The Tatyar were the second group of elves to awake, and the Nelyar were the third group to awake. So there could still be some difference and distinctness between these groups that remain in the six tribes.
Six tribes of Avari are mentioned in the Third Age, and their names are all cognates of the Primitive Quendian word Kwendî (the Speakers): Kindi, Cuind, Hwenti, Windan, Kinn-lai, Penni.
That gives us 6 groups of Avari elves to work with. We can pick locations and the like and start to sort them out. One way to do that is to look at the language, which was Tolkien's big focus most of the time anyhow.
Avarin Langauge Structure
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Avarin
There were at least six different languages, or dialects, in the Avarin group. The various dialects did not have a common development, although all descended from Primitive Quendian.
Three larger divisions of Avarin are recorded: West Avarin, North Avarin and East Avarin. The West Avarin group was nearest to the Eldarin languages of the west; North Avarin was very peculiar, with no initial consonant groups. Not much is known of East Avarin.
Other versions
The Avarin were called Lemberin tongues which originally intended to have a resemblance in sound to Goidelic, Baltic, and Finnic languages.
So just because we have to start some place.
What if West Avarin contained the Kindi, Cuindi and Hwenti. Centered in and around the Sea of Rhûn, Dorwinion, the Wild Wood and the lands around Cuivienen.
The north Avarin might contain the Windan only. Having them north along the Orocarni mountains where the rivers empty out of them and the cold lands there. Perhaps close to one of the dwarf homes in that region.
That would put the East Avarin to contain the Kinn-lai and the Penni. The Kinn-lai might be those in the far east, over the Orocarni mountains and really sort of out of our area of focus for now.
The Penni might have migrated southwards, closer to Khand and the like all along the southern coasts of the sea.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Re: Chatter: Avari
To continue the thoughts on the tribes:
Perhaps the Kindi and the Cuindi are mixed of the Tatyar and Nelyar. While the Hwenti remain a pure collection of Tatyar. These three groups share langauge and cultural aspects and are kindred of one another
The Windan migrated north early and were all members of the Tatyar perhaps they sundered from the other groups because of some broken oath or tragic falling out between the groups.
Kinn-lai and Penni remain all Nelyar.
The Penni would perhaps have had contact with the Númenóreans when they came to the southern shores.
Perhaps the Kindi and the Cuindi are mixed of the Tatyar and Nelyar. While the Hwenti remain a pure collection of Tatyar. These three groups share langauge and cultural aspects and are kindred of one another
The Windan migrated north early and were all members of the Tatyar perhaps they sundered from the other groups because of some broken oath or tragic falling out between the groups.
Kinn-lai and Penni remain all Nelyar.
The Penni would perhaps have had contact with the Númenóreans when they came to the southern shores.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Re: Chatter: Avari
On second thought why not make a forth group, a South Avarin, it would make things a bit simpler geographically. The south become the Penni of the Nelyar who travel down the rivers to the sea.
A possible map.
A possible map.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
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- TetNak
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Re: Chatter: Avari
It would be interesting to explore the far north of the Orocarni. I can imagine lots of cold-stuff, wild snow wargs, etc.
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Re: Chatter: Avari
I was thinking that too. Drop a dwarf home there too.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
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Re: Chatter: Avari
As always it requires a second look at things to make sense out of them.
Looking just purely at language commonality groups I think this makes sense.
West Avarin: Kindi, Cuindi, Hwenti and the Penni who migrated south to the coasts but came from this language group early on.
North Avarin: Windan
East Avarin: Kinn-lai
Now looking at them from the Three Kindred sort of view
Kindi: Mixed Tatyar and Nelyar
Cuindi: Mixed Tatyar and Nelyar
Hwenti: Tatyar
Penni: Nelyar
Windan: Tatyar
Kinn-lai: Mixed Tatyar and Nelyar
Looking just purely at language commonality groups I think this makes sense.
West Avarin: Kindi, Cuindi, Hwenti and the Penni who migrated south to the coasts but came from this language group early on.
North Avarin: Windan
East Avarin: Kinn-lai
Now looking at them from the Three Kindred sort of view
Kindi: Mixed Tatyar and Nelyar
Cuindi: Mixed Tatyar and Nelyar
Hwenti: Tatyar
Penni: Nelyar
Windan: Tatyar
Kinn-lai: Mixed Tatyar and Nelyar
Last edited by Vardaen on Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
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Re: Chatter: Avari
So a map of the tribe locations in the Third Age
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Re: Chatter: Avari
A great many entries for Avari in the HoM-e can be read on this link.
http://www.henneth-annun.net/resources/ ... m?SCID=272
http://www.henneth-annun.net/resources/ ... m?SCID=272
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
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Re: Chatter: Avari
"Then befell the first sundering of the Elves. For the kindred of Ingwë, and the most part of the kindreds of Finwë and Elwë, were swayed by the words of their lords, and were willing to depart and follow Oromë; and these were known ever after as the Eldar, by the name that Oromë gave to the Elves in the beginning, in their own tongue. But many refused the summons, preferring the starlight and the wide spaces of Middle-earth to the rumour of the Trees; and these are the Avari, the Unwilling, and they were sundered in that time from the Eldar, and met never again until many ages were past."
The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 3, Of The Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor
"It is said that of the small clan of the Minyar [Vanyar] none became Avari. The Tatyar [Noldor] were evenly divided. The Nelyar [Teleri] were most reluctant to leave their lakeside homes; but they were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwë and Olwë were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin. The Noldor indeed asserted that most of the 'Teleri' were at heart Avari, and that only the Eglain really regretted being left in Beleriand.
"According to the Noldorin historians the proportions, out of 144, that when the March began became Avari or Eldar were approximately so:
Minyar [Vanyar] 14: Avari 0, Eldar 14
Tatyar [Noldor] 56: Avari 28, Eldar 28
Nelyar [Teleri] 74: Avari 28, Eldar 46; of which Amanyar Teleri 20, Sindar and Nandor 26"
The War of the Jewels, HoME Vol 11, Part 4, Quendi and Eldar, C. "The Clan-names"
The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 3, Of The Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor
"It is said that of the small clan of the Minyar [Vanyar] none became Avari. The Tatyar [Noldor] were evenly divided. The Nelyar [Teleri] were most reluctant to leave their lakeside homes; but they were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwë and Olwë were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin. The Noldor indeed asserted that most of the 'Teleri' were at heart Avari, and that only the Eglain really regretted being left in Beleriand.
"According to the Noldorin historians the proportions, out of 144, that when the March began became Avari or Eldar were approximately so:
Minyar [Vanyar] 14: Avari 0, Eldar 14
Tatyar [Noldor] 56: Avari 28, Eldar 28
Nelyar [Teleri] 74: Avari 28, Eldar 46; of which Amanyar Teleri 20, Sindar and Nandor 26"
The War of the Jewels, HoME Vol 11, Part 4, Quendi and Eldar, C. "The Clan-names"
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." - Gandalf
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
J.R.R. Tolkien, Council of Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring